I'll probably still see the Avengers. I mean I have issues with the contract and I get that Kirby is still getting messed with. I think there are weird things with copyrights as they currently are. Kirby got fucked over - I think that DC and Marvel could do something nice and give the family more money to smooth this over but I don't see them doing that.
As for Moore and Before Watchmen.
Why would I read a comic that the creator has no stake in?
I don't plan to see Avengers in theaters(admittedly more due to being more strapped for cash than a late-period Final Fantasy character), but maaaaaaybe DVD. Definitely not buying Before Watchmen, maaaaaaaybe if it's in at the library. I definitely plan to dial in my Marvel/DC buying, but seeing as I am down to Daredevil for Marvel, and that's on sort of a ledge what with the artist changeups and the crossing over, that won't be all that much of a challenge.
I won't be buying or reading Before Watchmen, at all. I think it's absolutely unnecessary and I don't respect the DC Comics approach. Watchmen was perfectly fine the way it is, and I personally don't see a reason to build on those characters. With The Avengers movie, however, I feel like, as far as credit goes, typically movies are credited to the director and/or film studios, so this isn't so out of the ordinary or unique on Marvel's part. I don't agree with it, but until I see some proof that Marvel/Disney aren't paying the Lee/Kirby/come the demon Etrigan. estates, then I don't think I'll be avoiding the movie.
On the other hand, you can't really hold those in power now with the sins of those from 30-40 years ago. That's why I think with DC, it's a more unforgivable action. I'll keep reading DC books across the board, though, because some of my favorite writers and artists are writing some of my favorite comics there and I'm in support of those creators. They do get paid for their work based on sales, so I will definitely continue purchasing their work. But Before Watchmen is completely out of the question.
I've blogged about it over at
Guttersniper, but yeah, I'm washing my hands with the Big Two. It was
the Frank Miller talk David posted at 4th Letter that really solidified my stance, but the piss-poor first issue of
AvX and my dwindling interest in NüDC didn't help matters. If this is the best the Big Two can offer, well, I'd rather point my dollars toward something that doesn't make me feel like a chump after I finish reading it.
I'm not gonna lie, I'm gonna miss
Daredevil, Hickman's
Fantastic Four/FF,
Wolverine & the X-Men and
Defenders, but it's just not worth knowing that when I buy those titles, I'm contributing to a system that values legal technicalities, falsehoods and profits more than truth, justice and honor. No matter how much Stan Lee wants to perjure himself or show up in movie cameos, he did not create the Fantastic Four or the X-Men or Spider-Man or the Hulk or the Marvel Thor, et cetera, all on his own.
You can say that times have changed and the guys at the top now are different that the guys at the top then, but I dunno, if you squint, you'll see they're still just the guys at the top.
(04-24-2012 02:19 PM)BIGREDROBOT Wrote: [ -> ]I've blogged about it over at Guttersniper, but yeah, I'm washing my hands with the Big Two. It was the Frank Miller talk David posted at 4th Letter that really solidified my stance, but the piss-poor first issue of AvX and my dwindling interest in NüDC didn't help matters. If this is the best the Big Two can offer, well, I'd rather point my dollars toward something that doesn't make me feel like a chump after I finish reading it.
I'm not gonna lie, I'm gonna miss Daredevil, Hickman's Fantastic Four/FF, Wolverine & the X-Men and Defenders, but it's just not worth knowing that when I buy those titles, I'm contributing to a system that values legal technicalities, falsehoods and profits more than truth, justice and honor. No matter how much Stan Lee wants to perjure himself or show up in movie cameos, he did not create the Fantastic Four or the X-Men or Spider-Man or the Hulk or the Marvel Thor, et cetera, all on his own.
You can say that times have changed and the guys at the top now are different that the guys at the top then, but I dunno, if you squint, you'll see they're still just the guys at the top.
I really respect that you and David Brothers have been able to go completely cold turkey on the big two, and I certainly agree that they use just awful buisness practices, buuuuuuut...
I'm just not going to be able to completely do away with all my Marvel/DC titles. There's so many creators that I want to support that don't write creator owned titles, and I really want to read their stories. (Dan Slott, for one, Jason Aaron, Gail Simone, come the demon Etrigan.) Moreover, I work in a comic store, so I kind of have to know at least a little bit about most of the comics we're selling, so that's unfortunate.
But, I've definitely cut back on my purchases to Marvel/DC, and I would love to see their stances on the Kirby estate and Moore's ownership change. Dunno. I'd love to see this controversy actually shift some wheels up at their HQ's though...
I've been moving away from the Big Two for a while now. Not even necessarily due to their shady dealings, but just since my interests have moved elsewhere. I'll probably go to see The Avengers, but that's because the kids want to see it and I have a hard time telling them no because their old man is trying to make a point to people who will never notice the $15 I didn't pay to go see their movie.
As for Before Watchmen, I don't know. there are at least two series I want to pick up and take a look at. Is it hypocritical to pay my money for those and still think DC is doing a shitty thing? I've been pretty comfortably buying Superman comics for the last few years despite knowing his creators got a rawer deal than Alan Moore could have dreamed of. I'll be honest, I don't know if I'm going to pay my money or not. Adult life is full of managing hypocrisies and this is another one I've got to figure out how to navigate.
I feel like a drug addict about all this. like, I can see all the points, and by god do I agree with everything being said by Brothers, Roberson et al, and I've boycotted Marvel purely by accident in that since Avengers Academy gave up on having aesthetically pleasing artists, I gave up on that, the last title I was actively reading (maybe I'll buy all the post #50 trades of PAD's X-Factor one day. I've only been putting that off because of... I don't know what. Money, laziness, the feeling that until it has a conclusion I'll never be satisfied, et cetera), but DC? DC's a harder drug to kick, down to three factors; the New 52 being super accessible and fun to me in a way few superhero comics have ever been, that crippling addiction to seeing things through to the end (similar to how people can't give up following characters no matter how shitty they get, but more that completionist mentality never-ending manga like One Piece have brought out of me), and how much I'm enjoying Supergirl, Red Hood and Shade.
They're not even good reasons, but that ability to justify things to suit my own ends holds me back. So i'm either gonna feel sick with myself for taking away something I enjoy, or sick with myself because I'm supposed to have a sense of morals.
which is all FAR too much thought to put into a hobby, really.
(04-25-2012 02:51 AM)Maxy Barnard Wrote: [ -> ]which is all FAR too much thought to put into a hobby, really.
What is a hobby for if not something to obsess over?
All of the Moore drama aside, I don't understand what could possibly be appealing about Before Watchmen. I mean one of the main conceits of The Watchmen was that the "heroes" portrayed were wholly uninteresting as heroes, and that allowed their more human endeavors to take a spotlight. The Comedian killing a bunch of dudes in Vietnam and a rich dude dressed like an owl are not terribly new or interesting ideas.
I loved The Watchmen and all, but even if Moore WAS attached, I can't imagine wanting to read anything about those characters. They served their purpose, their story is over. I was satisfied with that.