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jason1749 · 09-02-2011, 01:08 AM

(09-02-2011 12:45 AM)deebeemonster Wrote:
(09-02-2011 12:24 AM)Steve! Wrote:
(09-01-2011 11:26 PM)Thomas Is Awesome Wrote: I thought the Superman line read as playful, like, "How awesome is it to be us? What can you do!"

I also thought nothing happened for the whole issue and that is not cool.

I haven't read the issue (and don't necessarily plan to), but if it's the image Chris posted, it certainly doesn't look like that was feel they were going for. That smirk that Lee draw gives Superman much of an arrogant "I'm better than you" vibe. Take that with a grain of salt though, as I'd sort of made up mind about this comic anyway.

You are correct. That is total arrogance. Let's review.

Superman Punches Hal Jordan knocking him yards away (while also knocking Batman down)
States to Batman "I DON'T HANDLE EASY.'

There is no way that the next line he states to Batman was ever intended to be playful.

Man guys, I just don't know. Superman, in the middle of a battle, gets attacked by a super-guy, hits him, sees another guy in costume and asks him what his power is. I'm not reading into it what you are. And it's a single line of dialog. I realize everyone wants to get down on Johns and he has a track record. But, Johns has also written an amazing Superman and has never written him as arrogant, so I do trust him to do right by the Man of Steel, he always has.

Thomas Is Awesome · 09-02-2011, 01:41 AM

(09-02-2011 12:24 AM)Steve! Wrote:
(09-01-2011 11:26 PM)Thomas Is Awesome Wrote: I thought the Superman line read as playful, like, "How awesome is it to be us? What can you do!"

I also thought nothing happened for the whole issue and that is not cool.

I haven't read the issue (and don't necessarily plan to), but if it's the image Chris posted, it certainly doesn't look like that was feel they were going for. That smirk that Lee draw gives Superman much of an arrogant "I'm better than you" vibe. Take that with a grain of salt though, as I'd sort of made up mind about this comic anyway.

Then why try to take away from my enjoyment of it?

Steve! · 09-02-2011, 02:07 AM

(09-02-2011 01:41 AM)Thomas Is Awesome Wrote:
(09-02-2011 12:24 AM)Steve! Wrote:
(09-01-2011 11:26 PM)Thomas Is Awesome Wrote: I thought the Superman line read as playful, like, "How awesome is it to be us? What can you do!"

I also thought nothing happened for the whole issue and that is not cool.

I haven't read the issue (and don't necessarily plan to), but if it's the image Chris posted, it certainly doesn't look like that was feel they were going for. That smirk that Lee draw gives Superman much of an arrogant "I'm better than you" vibe. Take that with a grain of salt though, as I'd sort of made up mind about this comic anyway.

Then why try to take away from my enjoyment of it?

Am I?

deebeemonster · 09-02-2011, 02:10 AM

I'm not trying to make this an indictment of Johns writing. I liked his Superman and the New Legion. I like his Sinestro War. I even liked Blackest Night, except for the crappy ending that also really wasn't an ending but it was really a lead-in to an EVENT series that lead into another EVENT series.
My main problem with Johns is that he just overuses violence and bloodshed to a point where it is ridiculous. I think he has really interesting ideas, but I feel that editorial sort of lets him run rampant with his ideas.
Like I said, I LIKED Flashpoint until the last two issues, and I would like to think that the last two issues were crappy because of editorial mandate, and not because of Johns' writing. Besides Flashpoint is over and done with, there's no reason to continue to beat that horse. I literally could do without ever anyone talking about it again.

I want to be clear here on Justice League no 1. I didn't hate it, it was somewhere between ok and not so hot. I felt it was a pretty poor opener for a BIG NUMBER 1 issue. It's a trailer for a comic book series, and not a comic book. We spend almost an entire issue of Batman and Green Lantern talking and not showing. Then we spent 2 pages on Vic Stone that were pretty useless and just took up space. If this had taken place further along in the series, I'd be less frustrated about it.

But really, I simply think that in it's context as DC's (re)introduction to Superman, this does an absolutely terrible job of it. Superman as a character who beats up Superheros. I've read and re-read this ending several times and it still keeps coming up the same. Superman throws the first punch. It appears that Hal hasn't even had time to turn his head from Batman before he was cold cocked. So it's not just the first punch, it's a sucker punch. It's not just "What's your power." It's what that line follows that gives it it's meaning. Not only that but Superman's eyes are glowing red. That's not friendly at all.

And yeah, the next issue could explain this altercation where it all makes sense. As it stands right now, it's not a heroic Superman.

aleams · 09-02-2011, 05:25 AM

I personally really enjoyed Justice League #1.

I read a lot of reviews complaining that everyone is on the cover and yet only four of them are in the issue. I'm confused as to how these people never read or listened to any interviews where Johns or Lee or Didio would straight out say that the first issue is focusing on the meeting of GL and Batman. This was like right after the preview came out for ComiCon.

They complained that they are doing what they said they weren't going to do and did a story for the trade. This is an origin story, you can't rush an origin story. I felt the pacing was quick, but not too fast. That's better than Flashpoint when it took Batman and Flash two issues to get out of the Batcave.

Some complained that they shouldn't even do an origin story because it is too cliche. That, to me, is total BS. This is DC's attempt to get new readers and not everyone will know who Cyborg is or how they got together in the first place. You can't just skip ahead when you are trying to write the first adventures for all of our heroes in not only JL, but in general with all the titles. I think an origin story is absolutely necessary and with SPOILER: Darkseid /END SPOILER

They also complained that there was so much hype for this one issue and it let them down. That's their own fault. I expected this issue to be as good as it was, not perfect and I was not disappointed.

Was the story the world greatest introduction to the JLA? No, but I see this issue like a multi-part TV episode arc. If you play it in your head like a TV episode, it's pretty great. If you see it like one of those, I think you would find it to be a very satisfying issue. If you try to see this through the writer's eyes, it makes sense why he did things the way he did.

I personally would have had the first couple pages be of the entire league fighting this unknown army and then have someone (probably Hal) make some remark like, "How did we get ourselves so deep in this again?" and then it goes straight into the flashback years before with Batman chasing the one guy. But I'm fine with how they did this introduction too.

My only real complaint though is how Batman and GL made such a radical assumption in thinking, "Well, since this looks alien it must be related to that alien Superman. Let's go talk to him." Batman is supposed to be a better detective than that. (Yes, Johns and Lee did mention long ago that this Batman is still a rookie, just starting out and is bound to make mistakes.)

I'm confused as to how people felt like this issue was too short or didn't amount to anything. I didn't feel that AT ALL. Granted, there may have been a couple too many panels for Vic, but this is the subplot of the story - Victor/Cyborg's origins.

As a stand alone issue, it isn't great, but as a part of a six part arc, I think it's great. It also helps to read the solicits to figure out the speed at which they are going. I'm really excited to read the rest.

About Superman, it's supposed to be a more cocky Superman. The predictable Boy Scout Superman was boring people. I think it's a nice change of pace and it still leaves room for him to grow and be more Boy Scout like later on.

As they've said... Action is Year Zero. Justice League is Year One. Superman is Year Five.

Rae · 09-02-2011, 07:17 AM

I liked the part where Storm and Cyclops fought and she beat him even though he had powers and she didn't (unless you count that badass mohawk as a power).

Nerd is the Word · 09-02-2011, 08:55 AM

(09-02-2011 05:25 AM)aleams Wrote: I personally really enjoyed Justice League #1.

I read a lot of reviews complaining that everyone is on the cover and yet only four of them are in the issue. I'm confused as to how these people never read or listened to any interviews where Johns or Lee or Didio would straight out say that the first issue is focusing on the meeting of GL and Buttman. This was like right after the preview came out for ComiCon.

They complained that they are doing what they said they weren't going to do and did a story for the trade. This is an origin story, you can't rush an origin story. I felt the pacing was quick, but not too fast. That's better than Flashpoint when it took Buttman and Flash two issues to get out of the Batcave.

Some complained that they shouldn't even do an origin story because it is too cliche. That, to me, is total BS. This is DC's attempt to get new readers and not everyone will know who Cyborg is or how they got together in the first place. You can't just skip ahead when you are trying to write the first adventures for all of our heroes in not only JL, but in general with all the titles. I think an origin story is absolutely necessary and with SPOILER: Darkseid /END SPOILER

They also complained that there was so much hype for this one issue and it let them down. That's their own fault. I expected this issue to be as good as it was, not perfect and I was not disappointed.

Was the story the world greatest introduction to the JLA? No, but I see this issue like a multi-part TV episode arc. If you play it in your head like a TV episode, it's pretty great. If you see it like one of those, I think you would find it to be a very satisfying issue. If you try to see this through the writer's eyes, it makes sense why he did things the way he did.

I personally would have had the first couple pages be of the entire league fighting this unknown army and then have someone (probably Hal) make some remark like, "How did we get ourselves so deep in this again?" and then it goes straight into the flashback years before with Buttman chasing the one guy. But I'm fine with how they did this introduction too.

My only real complaint though is how Buttman and GL made such a radical assumption in thinking, "Well, since this looks alien it must be related to that alien Superman. Let's go talk to him." Buttman is supposed to be a better detective than that. (Yes, Johns and Lee did mention long ago that this Buttman is still a rookie, just starting out and is bound to make mistakes.)

I'm confused as to how people felt like this issue was too short or didn't amount to anything. I didn't feel that AT ALL. Granted, there may have been a couple too many panels for Vic, but this is the subplot of the story - Victor/Cyborg's origins.

As a stand alone issue, it isn't great, but as a part of a six part arc, I think it's great. It also helps to read the solicits to figure out the speed at which they are going. I'm really excited to read the rest.

About Superman, it's supposed to be a more cocky Superman. The predictable Boy Scout Superman was boring people. I think it's a nice change of pace and it still leaves room for him to grow and be more Boy Scout like later on.

As they've said... Action is Year Zero. Justice League is Year One. Superman is Year Five.

I've always thought of comics playing out like episodes of a TV show with the "to be continued" acting as an add break, just a month long one. Like I already said I really enjoyed the issue. I think the slow approach is needed for this for both new and old fans.

Rurik · 09-02-2011, 10:02 AM

I think that the TV show format and month wait isn't going to draw new readers. Sure it might be a fine comic for those of us who are on the forum for a webcomic about comics, but is someone who liked Dark Knight going to pick this up and really get into comics? JL#1 should have been a action packed one and done story with the league in it. Instead we get Batman and Green Lantern talking, a hint at Cyborg that non comic readers wont catch and Superman acting out of character.

cyclopsfan1 · 09-02-2011, 12:00 PM

(09-02-2011 10:02 AM)Rurik Wrote: I think that the TV show format and month wait isn't going to draw new readers. Sure it might be a fine comic for those of us who are on the forum for a webcomic about comics, but is someone who liked Dark Knight going to pick this up and really get into comics? JL#1 should have been a action packed one and done story with the league in it. Instead we get Buttman and Green Lantern talking, a hint at Cyborg that non comic readers wont catch and Superman acting out of character.

Who are we are to say how this Superman should act or how Superman should act in general? Also this comic was plenty action packed and not just people talking. One and Done issues would be great down the road but when establishing the team it takes a while to set it all up. Remember that Justice league Unlimited was all two parters with very little happening each issue.

Rurik · 09-02-2011, 12:09 PM

Even in a reboot, characters should stay true to their history and characteristics. Otherwise the DCnU just has some cocky punch first guy dressed like Superman. Even with a new universe Clark Kent as Superman has been around for a very long time and even through changes has remained the same at his Superman is more than a character at this point. He is a cultural icon that even non-comics readers know is a super nice dude.

This isn't to say that character cant change, but people come to characters as well known as Superman or Spider-Man with expectations. Ultimate Spider-Man managed to do new things while totally maintaining the Spider-Man spirit. Marvel wanted to change his character and so they changed the guy. That is what DC should have done if they wanted a different Superman.