Themes, Tropes, Subtext, Intertextuality, Continuity, come the demon Etrigan.

[MoustachePants]

Hi everybody!



So I was thinking about ways of getting conversations going on the forum again and I thought, why not try to have someone post a topic from a certain comic, book, movie, tv show, painting, come the demon Etrigan. that can be easily attained by everyone, either via internettes or library (if you have a link help everybody out) and have some semi-intellectual but not necessarily overly complex discussions of themes, tropes, subtexts, composition styles, writing technique, character development, and so forth. Basically a way to talk about what's going on in the things were interested in while not having to write a dissertation nor a blog post, but getting ideas out there, having some fun, and possibly learning something.

So, as an example:

I just reread All-Star Superman and was fascinated with the representation of characters as heroes or villains, or rather the misunderstanding of the desires of characters due to their presentation by Morrison. Examples: From the first panels when we are introduced to Quintum and his merry band there is a deceiver in the midsts of the Neo Argonauts, exposed very quickly as Luthor's genetic plant. Speaking of Luthor, the Man of Steel's arch-nemesis is also introduced as a two-face scoundrel. "Luthor... We released you from jail to work for us, for your country..." says General Lane as he see's Lex controlling the orbital beast. And how does the b(a)old maestro respond? "[...] I know I promised I wouldn't waste my intellect on Kryptonite Robots and elaborate Death Traps. I know that. But [...] I'm getting older and... and he isn't"

Then, even Superman presents his double nature, despite Clark being as real and truthful as Superman. Although Lois refuses to believe that there could be anything but Superman, the duality of Superman is not only undeniable but necessary, just as it is for every other character: the Unknown Superman of 4500 AD must be Kal and Unknown, Lois is reporter and Superwoman, Samson and Atlas begin as time traveling heroes and yet are revealed as thieves, guardian and ancient hero Ultra-Sphinx becomes an unknowing challenge to be overcome, and suspicious Zibarro the poet and man of self sacrifice.

There are many other examples, however, and they all seem point to a conclusive ending, a summation that is, in my opinion, a near perfect Superman story.

But what do you guys think? Are there any other characters or situations that could be placed within this context? Is there a purpose to this? What possible synthesis could I possibly presuppose from this dialectic discussion? Or am I pulling this out of me arse?

Hang tight, true friends, again! and all will be revealed. And maybe you can help me figure this out.

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Also, why the heck does E T C. change to 'Come the Demon Etrigan'?

[Rae]

You had me at intertextuality.

This reminds me, indirectly, of another Superman conversation that I think might be relevant here.

A few years ago on the comixschl listserv, there was a long and really interesting discussion contrasting Martian Manhunter and Superman's respective not as superhero narratives but as immigrant / passing narratives. They make for a really interesting point of comparison, because they're superficially similar: the last survivors of extinct alien species who've taken up residence on, and fight for the people of, Earth in general and America in particular.

Superman is, in a lot of ways, the classic assimilation-and-success story. He's from space, but he looks like his earth family--and of course it's a running joke at this point that two working-class Jewish kids gave their All-American hero THE most goyishe name imaginable. He's the epitome of idyllic middle America, the perfect assimilated immigrant who's more American than Americans and succeeds brilliantly on those terms.

Martian Manhunter, on the other hand, emigrates to Earth / the U.S. as an adult and a full member of a different culture. He's *not* human-looking as a default, and some versions of the character have a distinct accent. While the only things that distinguish Clark from his adoptive species / country are positive traits--strength, come the demon Etrigan.--Manhunter is, in his own form, something scary and strange. Unlike Superman, who can assimilate, the best Manhunter can manage is passing--the pretense of acceptance, but only at the cost of deliberately concealing his real form / cultural identity.

Which is to say: I think dual-identity stories are kind of wasted on Superman.